Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:00:00] There are moments while filming Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, Protecting the Wild, where Peter and I find ourselves in places that remind us just how diverse and beautiful our planet is. [00:00:11]
Peter Gros: [00:00:15] Ecosystems like the rainforests of Panama or the Arctic provinces of Canada are awe-inspiring. [00:00:19]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:00:21] But the majority of this planet is water, mysterious oceans that contain species we haven't even discovered yet. [00:00:28]
Peter Gros: [00:00:29] Filming underwater is always so humbling. To be in an environment not made for us and to swim among the different species there is truly magical. [00:00:38]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:00:39] I had a moment like that recently when we were filming at the Georgia Aquarium in Atlanta. I swam in a giant tank with whale sharks, and I mean, it was so magical that I found myself crying on camera because I was so moved by these massive, gentle beasts who swim really, really slowly, like three miles an hour, and they have this beautiful constellation of stripes and spots all over their bodies. [00:01:07]
Kelly Link: [00:01:08] Whale shark has a unique spot pattern on them. You don't really see that with other sharks and it's a really cool feature for those guys. Every single one of them is different in the same way that humans have different fingerprints. I would sort of liken what their patterns look like to the sky with the stars. [00:01:27]
Peter Gros: [00:01:28] Today we'll learn more about whale sharks and how a landlocked aquarium in the capital of Georgia came to be home to some of the world's largest fish. I'm Peter Gross, wildlife expert and educator. [00:01:47]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:01:47] And I'm wildlife ecologist Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant, and this is Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, The Podcast. Episode seven, Saving Nature's Biggest Fish, Whale Sharks. [00:01:59]
Peter Gros: [00:02:11] One thing to get clear right from the very beginning is why whale sharks are called whale sharks. Kelly Link manages the Ocean Voyager Habitat at the Georgia Aquarium. [00:02:21]
Kelly Link: [00:02:22] So whale sharks are sharks, they are fish. The whale part of their name is the descriptor and they have it for two reasons. One is because of their size. They are the largest fish in the world, which means a lot of people associate that kind of size with a whale, not with a fish. Then also because of what they eat. They're filter feeders, so they're eating a lot of the same types of foods that baleen whales would be eating. So it's sort of a dual purpose, both their size and their food items. [00:02:46]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:02:47] Kelly is a biologist who works closely with the whale sharks I swam with at the Georgia Aquarium. Our whale sharks. [00:02:53]
Kelly Link: [00:02:54] were caught in Taiwan. They are a food source there and they were caught in a set net there. If we did not purchase the animals, they would have gone to market and been eaten. So instead we offered to take them, held them in Taiwan for a little while, got them stabilized and eating and doing all the things we wanted them to do and then we moved them here to Atlanta. [00:03:15]
Peter Gros: [00:03:16] Kelly was actually a part of this process from the very beginning. [00:03:18]
Kelly Link: [00:03:19] I think it's probably one of the most excited moments I've had in my career, getting to the chance to go to Taiwan. It's a little intimidating to go out there because I don't speak the language. We worked with some really great translators and great people out there. When you go out to the sea pen, you're on a PVC boat and then all of a sudden you just see these fins stick up out of the water and then they put you in a dinghy and You go out and try to feed them some food and just getting them, seeing them like make that connection of, hey, this little dinghy with these weird looking people in it have food and I'm going to come up and I am going to eat. Like it's just so rewarding because you know that you did that and those sharks are eating because of the work that you do and really started prepping them for the move to Atlanta. It's about a 33 hour transport from Taiwan to Atlanta. They have to land in Alaska and clear customs and all the things that go along with all of that. So we wanted to make sure that they were very well prepared ahead of a transport, make sure they're really healthy to be able to make that move. [00:04:26]
Peter Gros: [00:04:27] They had this very successful 33 hour flight. Now walk me through what happened the first day that they arrived. [00:04:32]
Kelly Link: [00:04:32] We actually had a chartered UPS flight to bring them here. So it was just them on the plane. So once they arrived here in Atlanta, they were loaded up onto a flatbed truck and brought here to the aquarium. They were put into a special sling called a bladder stretcher that would hold water, lifted up out over the water and released onto exhibit. There were divers in to help them navigate because again, they've been in this box for 33 hours. It's a little disorienting when they first come out of it. So they had divers swim with them to release them, make sure they were navigating the system really well. And the first couple of days are just kind of settling in and we were working on reestablishing feeding behavior with them and making sure they're really comfortable. They're filter feeders, so you just had to get the food close enough to them for them to realize that there was food and they would generally start picking up pretty quickly. to start eating and then we could start working on their training and getting them doing what we wanted them to do. [00:05:31]
Peter Gros: [00:05:32] Do you remember the very first time that you got into the tank with him? [00:05:34]
Kelly Link: [00:05:35] Oh, I definitely do. I'd never seen a whale shark. I really hadn't even heard of a whale shark before I got this job. And our very first whale shark arrived. He had actually regurgitated some in the water. So the water was murky. I couldn't see him at all. And someone was like, hey, get in that box with that whale shark, and I was like excuse me? You want me to do what? Um, so I'm like climbing into this murky water with an animal I've never seen. I don't really know what to expect working to get him into the stretcher and all of that. And, um, it was a little daunting. I was very young. I was, very new in this career and I didn't really know what you expect. Um, and then all of a sudden I just saw this like face come up out of the water. And it was just such a cool moment because that was the first moment I'd really seen. a whale shark and it was basically right in my lap as I got in the water with him. It was kind of like awe-inspiring just to be able to be that close and in that moment was really cool. [00:06:37]
Peter Gros: [00:06:38] You probably know more about whale sharks now, considering the amount of time you've spent with them than anybody I know. Can you tell me a little about their typical behavior in the wild? [00:06:47]
Kelly Link: [00:06:47] They stay in the, you know, fairly warm tropical subtropical waters. They're basically following their food as much as possible, so they're going to be going to places with a lot of food options for them. That's why they go to the Yucatan Peninsula. There are fish spawning during the summer, and they're there to feed. The interesting thing about whale sharks, for being such a large animal, there's not whole lot of information known about their habits in the wild. big picture. We know where they like to go, where they feed, but we don't know where they go for breeding. We don't where they go giving birth to their babies. Whale sharks generally are fairly solitary in the ocean. You might find a bunch together when there's abundant food like in Mexico, but most of the time you're not going to see whale sharks together in the oceans. So there's a lot of unknowns about them and about what they do. So that's something that we're trying to fill in the gaps of the research to help understand where are they going, what are they doing? They also dive down really deep and we don't know why. So trying to understand a lot of those behaviors and see if we can figure out what's going on with them. [00:07:59]
Peter Gros: [00:08:00] I was fortunate enough to be in the water very close to a whale shark in the Yucatan Peninsula and this one was about the size of a school bus. Do we know what maximum size can be? [00:08:10]
Kelly Link: [00:08:10] There are reports of whale sharks all the way up to 60 feet long. I don't know how common that is for them to get that large, but there are reports of them that large. I think average is usually about 40 to 45 feet. But even that's really big when you're in the water next to them. [00:08:26]
Peter Gros: [00:08:27] I felt like a speck in the ocean as one came by with this yawning mouth just feeding about ten feet from me. My plan was to stay farther away, but it kept coming towards me, so I just floated there motionlessly as it went by with this huge yawning mouth. [00:08:43]
Kelly Link: [00:08:43] They don't care that you're there at all. Like, they're there feeding and if you're in their way, they don't really care, they'll just run you over. I had one basically do that to me. I was taking pictures of one of them and I turned around and there was another one right behind me and I just had to like flare my body to the surface to just get clear of it because it was so focused on feeding, it didn't even register that I was there for that shark. [00:09:07]
Peter Gros: [00:09:08] Being in the water with whale sharks is an incredible experience. I felt it in the Yucatan and Rae experienced this emotional feeling at the Georgia Aquarium when she was able to observe the whale sharks in their tanks. [00:09:21]
Speaker 4: [00:09:21] It was really good. These animals are incredible. And to just be a person. To just be a little human, you know, in there, and to be so close to, like, a different kind of life. I didn't expect to be emotional, but it's moving. [00:09:43]
Peter Gros: [00:09:47] Whale sharks are a species that is still fished as food during our lifetime. Are there any other threats that face them in other parts of the world? [00:09:55]
Kelly Link: [00:09:55] People are definitely the largest threat to whale sharks. The good news is that there are places that are starting to understand the value of whale sharks and they're not allowing fishing any longer. Taiwan is actually a really great example of that. After we were there and got our whale sharks from them, they actually changed their laws so that whale sharks are no longer allowed to be fished there, which is great. So there are definitely places that are starting to put some protections in place for whale sharks, but other than us There are some cases where they might be prey for the only animal that would go after them, as adults would be an orca. Certainly, when they're younger and smaller, they could be potential prey for other sharks. But once they're full grown, humans are their biggest threat. [00:10:41]
Peter Gros: [00:10:41] Do we have an idea if the population is declining? [00:10:44]
Kelly Link: [00:10:44] They are endangered. So, yes, their population is definitely declining and hopefully some of the things that are being implemented will help that population rebound. [00:10:54]
Peter Gros: [00:10:55] Kelly and her team do a lot of research with the whale sharks in their care. They even track the full DNA sequence of this species. Their work helps us understand whale sharks so we can protect them in the wild. [00:11:08]
Kelly Link: [00:11:08] We actually have a fair amount of research going on in different places around the world. We have been able to take some of the things that we've learned about the whale sharks here at the aquarium and apply them out to wild populations. So for instance, we've learn of a way to draw blood off of a whale shark underwater via divers. So our research team was able to take that into the field. And they did the first, I think first ever full assessment of wild whale sharks via drawing blood on them in the Philippines. There's a fishery there that the whale sharks are regularly caught in in the nets. So they were able to get in the nests with the sharks, do measurements, do blood, do all the things there with them before they were released back into the ocean. So taking those techniques and using them out in for wild populations is really important. And then we have people who go down for tagging whale sharks. Our research staff has gone to the Galapagos, St. Helena, which is an island in the middle of the Atlantic, that whale sharks have been known to congregate. They've been able to put tags on whale sharks in those places to try to understand their movements, try to what they're doing and where they're going and what that looks like. [00:12:22]
Peter Gros: [00:12:23] You've been so fortunate to watch these whale sharks grow over the years. What's it been like seeing them develop over this many years? [00:12:29]
Kelly Link: [00:12:30] It's been really interesting, especially when we got our whale sharks. They were not mature. They were fairly small males. I believe they came in there about 13 feet long, which sounds really big, but in the grand scheme of things with whale sharks was still pretty small. So really seeing them develop their own personalities and figure out what their life looks like in human care was just really cool. And As they've gotten bigger, they're coming into maturity and how does that change their behavior? And it's just been really, really interesting to watch and really cool to see. [00:13:06]
Peter Gros: [00:13:07] And what is their day-to-day life when you're figuring out what they do and what they're comfortable doing? [00:13:11]
Kelly Link: [00:13:13] Mostly it involves swimming and eating, so they, again, being filter feeders, they eat a fair amount of food. We do feed them every day three times a day. And then we also do supplemental feeds. One of our sharks gets an underwater feed via divers. So we can work with him, swim in all different directions, get him to utilize the exhibit differently when we're swimming with him. And then on different days, they both get walks around the perimeter of the habitat. So it's been really, we use those things to get them like really following us really well, essentially putting them in positions. For instance, today we were doing a descents dive to get one of our sharks ready to do a blood draw underwater. And we did that via a feed. [00:13:58]
Peter Gros: [00:13:59] Now, obviously your job must come with some challenges as well, can you tell us a little bit about that? [00:14:04]
Kelly Link: [00:14:04] I mean, one of the biggest challenges is just that these are very large aquatic animals. Having to do anything underwater always adds a level of difficulty because you're doing it on scuba gear, you're limited to how much air you have, you want to always think of human safety whenever you're going these things, just not because they would ever intentionally do something, but because they're just so large and they could potentially hurt someone without trying. So that's a big challenge with those guys, is just making sure that you're staying safe and that you are able to do things with them underwater safely. [00:14:34]
Peter Gros: [00:14:35] Well, I was watching a school group of youngsters as they swam by the windows in your tank. And I couldn't help but think about the impression that you have just made on those children. They've connected with the natural world in such a poignant way. I'm hoping as they get a little older, they're gonna say, now what can I do to help save these species? And this is another thing that I think you must be very proud of. [00:15:00]
Kelly Link: [00:15:01] That's definitely a big part of working at a public aquarium like ours and having animals that you would not get to see regularly. It's not the same thing to see a whale shark on the television as it is to actually see one swim past you in person. And it's definitely really impactful for people to be able to come here and see these animals and have that connection and want to make a change. That's why we're here. I take care of animals, but the whole point of that is to educate people and get them excited about the oceans and our animals that we have. [00:15:36]
Peter Gros: [00:15:37] Well, that is just excellent. So good and so true. Keep up the good work. This is an amazing project you have there. The research is incredible, and I know that you're impacting the public's attitude about preserving our oceans. [00:15:49]
Kelly Link: [00:15:49] I certainly hope so. [00:15:50]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:16:01] Now it's time for conservation connection. We know that the more we can connect with animals, the more likely we are to protect them. Today, we're shedding light on the work Oakland Zoo is doing to protect animals that have been rescued from natural disasters, like wildfires or inhumane situations. [00:16:17]
Peter Gros: [00:16:18] Did you know that zoos and aquariums assist in rescuing and rehabilitating animals that may never be in an exhibit? Those dedicated conservationists are unsung heroes for wildlife in need. Darren Mignet and Isabella Linares from the Oakland Zoo have come to the aid of many animals in danger. [00:16:37]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:16:37] They've been part of rescuing animals from various circumstances. Sometimes they've been exotic animals that were trafficked in from overseas. Or they're animals that have been housed in an unaccredited roadside zoo. Or, more recently, [00:16:50]
Darren Minier: [00:16:51] There's a lot of fires, wildfires going across California right now, and we're anticipating having bear cubs. We currently have a mountain lion cub that we're triaging and rehabilitating. Even yellow-legged frogs, where the wildfires go through, they damage the ecology, and now there's too much silt in the water, or there's not enough cover for the water. And so the biologists will bring us egg mass and we'll rear those frogs. We'll treat them for chytrid, which is a fungus that's affecting a lot of amphibians. And then in a couple of years, when they're full fledged frogs and they're big enough, they'll go back to a rehabilitated environment. So we see rescue as a through line for individuals and for populations. [00:17:35]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:17:36] It just seems like this is surprisingly quite emotional work, and I'm wondering, how do you feel sometimes? I imagine every rescue feels different. Some might feel really tragic and sad, and some might feel very triumphant. Can you give us some examples of the way it feels? [00:17:56]
Isabella Linares: [00:17:57] To be a part of a rescue. Even though the story can be very sad, it's still an important story to share. I think that's a change in a lot of zoos and aquariums or anybody that handles animals that it used to be that we didn't talk about those sad stories because who wanted to hear about them? But it is something that these things like especially like wildfires, roadside zoos that are plaguing these species and it's important for us to... harness those emotions and it leads to action or it leads to people having attention to things that they didn't know about before. So I find that as a triumph, even if sometimes these animals don't survive, at least we can be triumphant that people learned about what's happening to these species. So even though sometimes we shed a tear or we're smiling, I think it's always going to be a triumph no matter what. [00:18:45]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:18:50] That conversation was recorded at the 2024 Annual Conference of the AZA, the Association of Zoos and Aquariums in Calgary, Canada. [00:18:58]
Peter Gros: [00:19:00] Thank you for listening to this episode of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, The Podcast. And remember, if we protect wildlife and the environment today, we can ensure magical moments in the wild kingdom for future generations. [00:19:14]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:19:15] Join us next week when we talk to Lauren Henson about her success in breeding coatis under Thank you. [00:19:21]
Lauren Hinson: [00:19:21] I don't think we slept for weeks checking overnight to make sure that everything was okay, making sure that the nesting material was right, it was quiet, there was enough heat, the cameras were working, that the females, you know, weren't stressed, they had enough food. There are things that can go wrong and, you, know, we put everything into that. [00:19:45]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:19:45] That's next time on Mutual of Omaha's. Wild Kingdom, The Podcast. [00:19:47]
Peter Gros: [00:19:58] Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, The Podcast, is a production of Pineapple Street Studios and Mutual of Omaha. Our senior producer is Stephen Key. Producers are Elliot Adler and Jenny Van Soelen. [00:20:11]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:20:12] Associate producer is Lisa Cerda. Editor is Darby Maloney. Executive producers are Barry Finkel, Gabrielle Lewis, and Jen Wulf. Pineapple's head of sound and engineering is Raj Makija. Senior audio engineers are Marina Pais, Davy Sumner, Javi Cruces, and Pedro Alvira. This episode was mixed by Davy Somner. [00:20:36]
Peter Gros: [00:20:37] Production music courtesy of Epidemic Sound and Hearst Media Production Group. [00:20:40]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:20:41] Episode clips, courtesy of Hearst Media Production Group. Marketing and promotion by Emily Poeschl. This podcast is hosted by me, Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant. [00:20:50]
Peter Gros: [00:20:52] Peter Gross. A special thanks to Katelyn Williams, Sophie Radmelamage, and Stephanie Diaz. [00:20:57]
Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant: [00:20:58] Today's episode is based on the Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom series created by Don Meier. Our next episode will be out in a week. [00:21:06]
Peter Gros: [00:21:06] Make sure you listen on the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. [00:21:06]
